So Much More Chapter 9: Career

Some of my thoughts:

Pages 105-107 talk about women being provided for. I think this is a good admonition. Often times women are left high and dry to support themselves and raise their children alone when husbands just walk away. This is not the way it should be. Women should not be abandoned.

Page 108 talks about women called to be keepers at home. They quote Titus 2:4-5. I have a problem with this. So often this passage is applied to unmarried women as their calling in life. I'm not sure that was what was meant. Notice the passage says these young women should love their husbands (doesn't sound like they are talking to single girls!), love their children (again married women, siblings are NOT to become sisters responsibility), subject to their husbands (again not talking to single girls) So often single girls put themselves under this passage as a rule to live by when it doesn't even seem to be talking to them!

Pg. 113 According to Scripture is chasing a career outside the home a sin? Because only God can dictate what sin is, and because sin is a very serious thing, we must be very cautious about what we label as sin. Careerism may not technically be a sin in theological terms, but doing one's best to get out from under God's order for families and society may be a sinful action done with sinful motives. It may not be "want of conformity to the law of God, but it does appear to be want of conformity to His design for civil society.

They may claim that they can't say that it is a sin but I know in those circles that girls who don't conform to these standards are not accepted, gossiped about, and looked down on for not being "enlightened" as to what God wants for every single girl. It seems a lot of girls who hold to these standards have an outward form of righteousness but ignore the matters of the heart (loving others, not gossiping, etc)

They then go on to talk about the Proverbs 31 women. My own personal note, I find Prov. 31:16 interesting. With her own earnings she buys a field. This women was earning money. She didn't go to her husband for everything she needed. So often people are trying to create rules to live by: A women shouldn't work outside the home. Why do we need to create rules if Scripture didn't? Maybe when God gives a women a love for her husband and children she will be able to see how to earn some money in a balanced way without harming her husband or children and without needing to be bound by rules that aren't even in Scripture anyway!

Pg. 115, 116 I appreciated the admonition here that women who are childless or whose children are grown and gone don't have to go to work but instead can be ministering to the body of believers. So often women are made to feel worthless or lazy if they don't go and get a job when their children are grown. Personally I think money isn't the most important thing. If women want to help other believers instead of getting a job I think they should be free to do so without being looked down upon.

So Much More Chapter 8

pg. 93 The word "femininity" is also fraught with derogatory misinterpretations. It is a common misconception that femininity is all about being fluffy, pink, prissy, flirtatious, bimbo-like or trivial. These are descriptions that the world brings to mind when the word "feminine" pops up, but nowhere in Scripture are such things mentioned as being signs of godly womanhood.

I appreciated the above statement because so often I was told that to truly embrace godly womanhood I had to basically look like I came from the Victorian era. Not everyone likes lace, ruffles, or the color pink. Just because one dresses with less frills doesn't mean they are trying to rebel against femininity. Maybe they are just being practical. Imagine having to wash yards and yards of material for just one dress! I think I'll pass....

So Much More Chapter Six

Chapter Six discusses Karl Marx and Feminism. I haven't really studied the history of either of these but reading through the chapter reminded me how important it is to be grounded in Christ. It doesn't matter what the doctrine is (Marxism, feminism, legalism) it is easy to fall prey to them when one isn't grounded in Christ.

"A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump"

For me the leaven wasn't feminism but trying to live a life pleasing to Christ. Sounds good doesn't it? But the problem was it was MY effort. I was trying to find out what God wanted me to do. I was trying to measure up. The problem was I never could. That's not how I received Christ and that isn't how I continue to walk (be sanctified) in Him. (Col. 2:6) My life was all about earthly things (modest dress, holy living, godly music) but that isn't what the Christian life is all about. It's about Christ! (Col. 2:20-23)

I would almost think that any theology or idea does have some good in it or we wouldn't follow it. I'm realizing more and more how much truth can be in something with just a little falsehood added into it and yet still have extreme, life changing consequences.

Tragically I have seen this to be the case this week with a friend and it breaks my heart. It makes me want to go through all of my books and throw out any that do not preach Christ and instead are teaching man-made ideas that look good but really are nothing but filthy rags.

Truly, a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.

So Much More: Is Every Girl Called to be her Father's Helper?

From pg. 42

As we stated before, every woman is, by nature, a man's helper. You are a helper, no matter what your age or marital status. The choice before you and ever other young woman isn't, "to help or not to help?" Its who to help. Can you imagine a man more deserving of your devotion and assistance, someone whom you love and trust more than your own father?

The chapter than goes on to explain different ways we can be of help to our fathers.

Now I do agree that girls can make great helpers. I also think that many times Christians over glorify helping "organized ministries" and look down on those who choose to help their own fathers as wasting their lives and not serving Christ. Home can be a great ministry and something God uses to conform us to the image of Christ. He may want some girls staying at home and helping their fathers.

However, it seems Vision Forum and the Botkin family is focused on girls training to be keepers at home (nothing wrong with that) and helping their fathers (again nothing wrong with that) as their calling in their unmarried years. (I would have to disagree that these things are every girl's calling.)

I have yet to see a Scripture verse stating a command for single girls to be their father's helper. I thought that was given to his wife not his daughter? I'm not disputing the fact that being under authority and learning to be your father's helper may help you in your future marriage but what I would like to dispute the myth that somehow all girls staying at home are more in God's will because they have been "enlightened" to "God's way" for every single girl then all of the other girls who don't stay at home. I just don't see it.

As far as I remember the only specific direct command to girls in the New Testament as to what they should be doing in their single years is to be focusing on the Lord and being Holy in body and in Spirit. (1 Cor. 7 v. 34) Maybe by telling them to focus on being a keeper at home and their father's helper we are missing out on this season of life that God says girls are able to focus solely on the Lord. I literally know of girls who were more the mom of the house than the mom was. How is the way these girls are living any different from how they will be living when married if they have all of the same responsibilities now? How are they freer to focus on the Lord?

I sometimes wish people would stop telling and pressuring young adult girls what to do. They are pressured to start a career. Pressured to go to college. Pressured to do "ministry". Pressured to stay at home and be their father's helper (otherwise they are told they are out of God's will.) What if we stopped pressuring girls and just let them focus on the Lord? Maybe then they could actually hear God's still small voice in their life and be able to follow Him!

So Much More Chapter 2 Part 2

Page 18

"But man is incomplete without her. It is the two of them together that reflect the image and glory of God. It is only when woman is, in effect, restored to man's side, that the two are fully complete."

In Genesis it doesn't say that God made Eve because Adam was incomplete without her. Nor does it say that Adam didn't reflect God's glory without Eve. Eve was created to be a companion and to be a helper. (Gen 2:18)

Even though I am single, I still reflect the glory and image of God. I do this when I show to others mercy and comfort (2 Cor. 1:3) and am tender hearted and forgiving (Eph. 4:32) love them as Christ loved me (Jn 13:34) and when I serve others (Matt. 20:25-28) The list could go on and on!

I think this is an important point especially for those still single. I can reflect God's image to others now! I am not some half baked witness. True, I don't reflect the marriage picture of Christ and the church as married couples do. But even married couples do no represent Christ's image 100% because God is perfect and we are a far cry from that. (Not that I'm downplaying the beauty of marriage. I would love to someday be "one flesh" with my future husband whoever that is. Hopefully sooner rather than later. :-P )

Page 19

"Ms. Stinem's statement [A woman without a man is like a fish without a bicycle] was not only absurd; it was blasphemous. This is because the relationship between men and women parallels the relationship between Christ and the church. (Eph. 5:23)"

I disagree that "the relationship between men and women parallels the relationship between Christ and the Church" Ephesians does not state that. It says husband and wife. My relationship with my father can reflect my relationship with my heavenly Father but it doesn't reflect my relationship with Christ and His bride the Church. Therefore how I relate to men who are not my husbands will be different without being considered blasphemous.



Page 20

"God saw that it was not good for Adam to be alone and said, "I will make a helper suitable for him." Being companions and helpers is more than just a job God gave us. It's what we were actually created for. It's what we were designed and specially equipped to be. In fact, it's an intrinsic and inextricable part of our natures to be helpers to men. It's not something we can get away from, even by choice."

I find it really interesting that Eve was created to be a companion and typically women are very relational people. ;-)

I'm not making a blanket rule for everyone from this, but in my own life I find the above true. I am discovering that I would much rather help someone than be responsible for leading a bunch of people. (Or running my own business!)

So Much More Chapter Two Part One

Page 17

The fact that God describes himself as a Father to us shows us that the position of earthly father is like an earthly reflection of God.

I was struck by this statement. Still being single, it confirmed the fact that I definitely want to marry someone who, if we have children, will love and raise them the way God fathers me. With grace, love, a servant's heart, etc. It's an important responsibility.

Our fathers are supposed to be dear, trusted confidantes and friends, but God has given them a charge to be much more than this. They are to be our knights in shining armor, our protectors, our guardians, and are even supposed to represent God to us.

I'm not exactly sure what was meant by our fathers "are even supposed to represent God to us" If the authors meant they are a picture or reflection I would agree.
By this I mean, pictures/reflections are just that, they are imperfect pictures and are not the same as the real thing.
God as our Father is just that. He is still God. Our fathers are not. Therefore our earthly fathers have limitations and guidelines in how they use their authority as our father and the way we relate to our father is not the same way we would relate to God as our father. Our fathers are also not a go between us and God.

I'll finish Chapter 2 on Monday

So Much More: Finishing Chapter One

Last but not least....

Page 7



"We believe in a day of extreme apostasy and judgement, extreme measures are exactly what are called for, and that a drastic step in the opposite direction is exactly what we need to take."


I do not agree that a drastic step in the opposite direction is exactly what we need to take! This is so typical! Everybody keeps doing the pendulum swing. I don't care how wrong something is. Going in the opposite direction is not going to fix the problem!!! Most people go from lawlessness to legalism. Neither are right! Sure, legalism looks good but the religious leaders of Christ's day had that and Christ didn't have too many kind words for them. When we see that something is wrong we shouldn't swing in the opposite direction and expect it to fix the problem. Creating rules doesn't fix anything! It may look good for a while but it doesn't fix anything because it doesn't change the heart. Gossiping about those who have "gone astray" and looking down on others doesn't help anything but self-pride. Instead of trying to come up with solutions, rules, answers, and backing your "position" up with Scripture...Run to Christ!!! He is the Only One with answers because He is the Only answer! Even the Bible is not the answer. Jesus told the Pharisees "You search the Scriptures because you think they give you eternal life. But the Scriptures point to me!" (John 5:39) How often we do that as Christians. We think we can find all of the answers in the Scriptures yet our rules and convictions start replacing a relationship with Christ.

I found this interesting:

"They [stay-at-home daughters] must continually endure the disapproval of many people who call their zealous obedience to Scripture "legalism" (pg.8)"

They defined Legalism as:

"We define legalism as the fleshly pursuit of man's moralism in hope of earning salvation." (pg. 334 point 4)

I definitely do not define legalism as only relating to the hope of earning salvation. It encompasses more than that. I hadn't ever sat down and defined what I thought it is. I suppose right now I would have to say legalism is trying to earn God's favor (salvation or sanctification) through our own obedience. But we couldn't earn God's approval before we were saved so why do we think we can do it after we are saved? Or you could say legalism is trying to follow God's Word perfectly. We couldn't do it before we were saved so why would we think that we can attempt it now? The Christian life is only lived through Christ. Not a bunch of rules.

Let me ask you this one question: Did you receive the Holy Spirit by keeping the law? Of course not, for the Holy Spirit came upon you only after you believed the message you heard about Christ. Have you lost your senses? After starting your Christain lives in the Spirit, why are you now trying to become perfect by your own human effort? (Gal. 3:2,3)
     I'll be starting Chapter 2 next week. I will have positive things to say about this book. I know it doesn't sound like it now. :-P
     I did get some good things out of this book. It's just that I don't live my life anymore by trying to find out what God wants me to do and how He wants me to live my life. I live it now by seeing Christ and developing my relationship with HIM. God takes care of the rest. :-)
 
~Grace

So Much More Chapter One: Continued

Continuing with Chapter One


Page 6

This Book is about protection. We know a number of girls whose fathers are so passive they don't provide their daughters any kind of guidance, direction, discipline or correction. We know girls who like it this way. Said one of these girls, "I sure hope my dad never picks up any of these ideas about interfering with my life or what I want!"

That girl is afraid to lose a measure of childish independence. She is afraid of fatherly input and protection. If you don't want this from your father, then you don't have the heart for this book. If you are not willing to give your heart to your father, this book will put you at odds with the Scriptural mandate you will find here.

First of all, just because a father does not give as much guidance to their daughters as Mr. Botkin or Mr. Phillips does, it does not mean that their father is passive. Many men just lead differently then Mr. Botkin or Mr. Phillips. For many years after reading So Much More I would be frustrated that my father wasn't "leading" me. He wasn't telling me what he wanted me to do, how I was supposed to live my life after high school, and he wasn't sharing with me his vision and telling me I needed to follow it and make it my own.

Now don't get me wrong, my dad is a wonderful leader. I highly respect and value his opinions. He does care about giving me protection and guidance. But if there is one thing I know my dad doesn't want for me it is to be a "monkey on a motorcycle" ie. he wants me to think for myself and not just blindly follow someones commands without thinking. (I am not saying the Botkins or Phillips family is advocating that we be "monkeys on a motorcycle" but some of the ways they portray leadership and passivity I don't think are correct.) Therefore the way my dad leads me will be different from the way other fathers lead who have different "visions". 

My dad raised me to have a relationship with Christ and to be following Christ's will for myself not because someone else tells me this is Christ's will but because I knew it for myself. He basically raised me so that when I became an adult I was just that, an adult. He didn't need to be constantly giving me instructions about what I needed to be doing. He didn't have to check up on me. He knew he "trained me up in the way I should go and when I was older I wouldn't depart from it" 

My dad does lead and guide me. I always know I can get guidance from my dad. I go to him a lot. I know when I go to him for guidance it will be just that, guidance. He won't tell me what to do. He points me in the right direction but he rarely tells me exactly what to do. (I am not saying that there is never a time and place for a father to tell his daughter what he thinks she should do)

Once I got past trying to have my father fit into the Vision Forum and So Much More leadership mold I could actually start to see and appreciate the way my father leads, guides, and protects our family.

 A note about their opinions of girls who don't want their father's input. I'm not sure you can say they are "afraid of losing childish independence and afraid of fatherly input and protection". Some may be, granted, but other girls may just not see Scripture to be what they are claiming. Maybe it just means that they are like the Bereans and are searching the Scriptures to see if what they are claiming lines up. If God hasn't shown them that this is what Scripture is saying those girls should not follow what is being said in this book. Even if it means being labeled as "afraid of losing childish independence and afraid of fatherly  input and protection" and experiencing rejection from conservative Christians.

Remember the Pharisees studied the Scriptures and came to the wrong conclusions. Just because one can "find" it in Scripture or godly leaders say it is so does not mean someones conclusion is right!


I will finish Chapter 1 on Friday. Stay tuned!

Attempting to stay out of ditches

     Confused. I guess that's what you could call me. I'm starting to rethink everything I ever thought or believed. Well...maybe not everything, but enough to make my head spin!
     When I was young, I really didn't know how to discern the Truth. When people told me something, I feared rejection, so I conformed to what they said. Instead, I should have been firm in my relationship with Christ and went to Him to see if what people told me was correct. When people touted a doctrine and made those who disagree practically out to be heretics, I should have went to Christ. People are not my Bible! If I go to Christ for direction isn't He able to keep me from falling into false doctrine???
     It's not that I'm doubting Christ is real, completely abandoning the way I live, changing what I believe, or abandoning all my convictions, rather, I want my beliefs to be solely based on Christ alone and done because of love for Him and my neighbor, not because of fear of man.
     So many friends as they grew up went from one ditch to another. They were ultra conservative (probably due to all the gossip if you weren't). Then, as they got older, they realized what they thought was a must really wasn't. So they abandoned practically everything and went into another ditch, going into pitfalls their parents were trying to help them avoid. To a certain extent, I don't care if they don't live a certain way if its because they no longer have those convictions. But, to just completely abandon beliefs without finding out what God truly does want is a sure way to go from one ditch to another. It's something I want to avoid.               
     It's hard finding a balance. One I'm praying I will find. For now, I'm taking it slow, praying to Christ and crying out to Him to show me the way, and walking very, very slow. I want to stay on the straight and narrow path, not in the ditch on either side.