So Much More Chapter 7

They had a quote from Peter Marshall and I really love this part:

The world has enough women who are popular. It needs more who are pure. We need women, and men too, who would rather be morally right than socially correct.

Reminds me to keep Christ first even though the world doesn't.


From page 74

By simply being your father's daughter you are entitled to his protection. To be worthy of this protection, you must appreciate the reasons God has provided it for you, and then gratefully receive it from your dad.

I guess I'm not clear what they are trying to say. I don't think a person's worth is based on works. We are all worthy of protection simply because we were made in the image of God and are His creation. Any Jew in the Holocaust was worthy of protection no matter how nasty they were as a person.

From page 75

By self-denial, we mean something deeper than the usual meaning, "denying yourself things you want." Rather, we mean, "denying that you have a 'self' " 1 Corinthians 6:19,20 tells us that we do not belong to ourselves, but have been bought with a price. Matt. 10:39 says, "He that findeth his life shall lose it; and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it." We often hear people talking about "being true to yourself," "finding yourself," saying things like "That's just not 'me' " " I need to follow my heart" or "I'm special because I'm me."

The natural "us" deserves to spend eternity in Hell. Being true to our natural selves and "following our hearts," which "are deceitful above all things and desperately wicked" (Jer. 17:9) condemns us to spiritual death. We have no "selves" that are worth being loyal to. Much of what makes up our natural personalities and the state of our hearts is dictated by our sin natures.

I'm not sure I agree with the above quote. In one sense the old self was crucified at the cross and we don't want to bring it back. I agree that it was nasty! But on the other hand to deny the part of us that was made after God's image and to say our hearts are deceitfully wicked  and we have no selves worth being loyal to wouldn't really be true. After all, we were made after the image of God.

I know Conservative Christians are constantly quoting Jer. 17:9 about the heart being desperately wicked but what about Jer. 24:7? "And I will give them an heart to know me, that I am the Lord: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God: for they shall return unto me with their whole heart"
Our hearts can turn to Christ. He can give us a new heart with new desires. It doesn't have to stay desperately wicked and something that has to be ignored. Christ must always come first before anything, but just because He does, doesn't mean we completely ignore our heart and desires.

We do have a part of our self that is rebellious against God. It was crucified at the cross. I certainly don't want bring it back again and follow it! But we also were made after the image of God. God gave us personalities and desires. I don't need to deny the part of me that is made after God's image. For so long I wasn't really who God had created me to be. I was always trying to measure up. Fit into a mold of what others thought a good godly girl should be. I lost myself. I lost who God created me to be.

Ps. 37:4 Take delight in the Lord, and He will give you your heart's desires.

Yes, I should be delighting in the Lord, but notice it doesn't say delighting in trying to follow standards or rules. It says delighting in the Lord. He is to be my delight.

Notice it also says God will give me the desires of my heart. If my heart was only desperately wicked why would God give me something evil? How can God give me the desires of my heart if I never allow my heart to have any?

I'll have more thoughts on Chapter Seven soon!

So Much More Chapter Six

Chapter Six discusses Karl Marx and Feminism. I haven't really studied the history of either of these but reading through the chapter reminded me how important it is to be grounded in Christ. It doesn't matter what the doctrine is (Marxism, feminism, legalism) it is easy to fall prey to them when one isn't grounded in Christ.

"A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump"

For me the leaven wasn't feminism but trying to live a life pleasing to Christ. Sounds good doesn't it? But the problem was it was MY effort. I was trying to find out what God wanted me to do. I was trying to measure up. The problem was I never could. That's not how I received Christ and that isn't how I continue to walk (be sanctified) in Him. (Col. 2:6) My life was all about earthly things (modest dress, holy living, godly music) but that isn't what the Christian life is all about. It's about Christ! (Col. 2:20-23)

I would almost think that any theology or idea does have some good in it or we wouldn't follow it. I'm realizing more and more how much truth can be in something with just a little falsehood added into it and yet still have extreme, life changing consequences.

Tragically I have seen this to be the case this week with a friend and it breaks my heart. It makes me want to go through all of my books and throw out any that do not preach Christ and instead are teaching man-made ideas that look good but really are nothing but filthy rags.

Truly, a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.

So Much More Chapter Five

I don't have a lot to say on this chapter except that I appreciated "You don't have to respect his [your father's] weaknesses, but you should be sensitive to them. We are all weak." So often I tend to see the weaknesses in my "authority figures" (father, mother, pastor, etc.) which can turn into disrespect or bitterness for me. But I love the grace that in Christ I can extend to them. They won't be perfect and neither will I. Not until we see Jesus face to face will that happen. I can choose to see their faults only or I can realize that "but for the Grace of God there go I" and choose to give them grace and mercy. I am trying to choose the latter.
~Grace

So Much More: Is Every Girl Called to be her Father's Helper?

From pg. 42

As we stated before, every woman is, by nature, a man's helper. You are a helper, no matter what your age or marital status. The choice before you and ever other young woman isn't, "to help or not to help?" Its who to help. Can you imagine a man more deserving of your devotion and assistance, someone whom you love and trust more than your own father?

The chapter than goes on to explain different ways we can be of help to our fathers.

Now I do agree that girls can make great helpers. I also think that many times Christians over glorify helping "organized ministries" and look down on those who choose to help their own fathers as wasting their lives and not serving Christ. Home can be a great ministry and something God uses to conform us to the image of Christ. He may want some girls staying at home and helping their fathers.

However, it seems Vision Forum and the Botkin family is focused on girls training to be keepers at home (nothing wrong with that) and helping their fathers (again nothing wrong with that) as their calling in their unmarried years. (I would have to disagree that these things are every girl's calling.)

I have yet to see a Scripture verse stating a command for single girls to be their father's helper. I thought that was given to his wife not his daughter? I'm not disputing the fact that being under authority and learning to be your father's helper may help you in your future marriage but what I would like to dispute the myth that somehow all girls staying at home are more in God's will because they have been "enlightened" to "God's way" for every single girl then all of the other girls who don't stay at home. I just don't see it.

As far as I remember the only specific direct command to girls in the New Testament as to what they should be doing in their single years is to be focusing on the Lord and being Holy in body and in Spirit. (1 Cor. 7 v. 34) Maybe by telling them to focus on being a keeper at home and their father's helper we are missing out on this season of life that God says girls are able to focus solely on the Lord. I literally know of girls who were more the mom of the house than the mom was. How is the way these girls are living any different from how they will be living when married if they have all of the same responsibilities now? How are they freer to focus on the Lord?

I sometimes wish people would stop telling and pressuring young adult girls what to do. They are pressured to start a career. Pressured to go to college. Pressured to do "ministry". Pressured to stay at home and be their father's helper (otherwise they are told they are out of God's will.) What if we stopped pressuring girls and just let them focus on the Lord? Maybe then they could actually hear God's still small voice in their life and be able to follow Him!

So Much More Chapter 4-Submission

Wow....Submission...this is a controversial subject. I'm going to try to tackle it anyway and believe me I do NOT have the answers. Basically I'm still seeking God's will on this topic and by no means have I figured it out yet. Below I will be referencing two articles that have an entirely different perspective on this subject than what I originally had. I really encourage you to read them since my thoughts really won't make much sense without them.

Chapter 4 of So Much More talks about Submission. To Quote:

According to the laws of the vows in Numbers 30, an unmarried girl is under the authority of her father, just as a wife is under the authority of her husband. In addition to being able, as we mentioned earlier, to annul his daughter's vow, a father has the authority to guide his daughter concerning marriage (1 Cor. 7:36-38) God has placed our fathers in a  position of authority over us, and to disobey them is to disobey God, unless the two come in direct conflict with one another.

Basically they are saying that single girls are under a father's authority (in the same way a wife is to her husband) until marriage and to disobey a father is to disobey God (unless the two come in direct conflict).

First of all, Numbers 30 does not say ALL unmarried girls can have their vows annulled. Every time in this passage it mentions an unmarried daughter living at home with her father it says the girl is in her youth. Is this significant? I'm not sure but it may very well be. Mike Pearl had an interesting article on unmarried kids and obedience. It can be found here (You will have to scroll past all of the letters to get to the article) It got me thinking, "Is an older single daughter still required to obey her father or is she only required to give him honor?" "Is she required to live at home in all of her single years?" The Bible doesn't have much to say about what single girls are supposed to be doing. Maybe because the norm was that most girls would get married while still in their youth (Pr. 5:18) which would then avoid the stage of parents and young adults relating when they are fully adults but haven't started their own household yet. Mike Pearl makes an interesting point in his article: obedience to parents is always in the context of children and not adults. Honor (not the same thing as obedience) is in the context of adults. Implying adults can disobey without necessarily dishonoring their parents.

Now you may say, but wait! What about all of the arranged marriages and examples in Scripture that seem to imply that a father is in authority over his single daughter and what she does with her life until she marries. Again I will reference a really good article since she said it so much better than I did. Please check out Three in one makes five Are all of those stories in the Bible on unmarried girls actual direct commands God is calling us to obey? For example, the story of Jephthah and his unmarried daughter. What should girls apply to their life? Should we conclude that a single girl should never be the first one out the door to meet her father when he has been away since consequences followed? (Judges11:34-39) I should think not!

If adult daughters are not required to obey parents but can disobey parents without always having it be dishonor and disobedience to God the ramifications could be huge for some girls! Maybe it would mean they would be able to leave an over-controlling parent without feeling like they are living in sin.

I love my father.  I do seek his advice. I do respect and honor him and will put his wishes before my own because I know he has wisdom in certain areas that I do not. But I won't let him be the controller of my life. (By the way, he is NOT controlling) Christ is the only one with the right to control my life.

God does give girls desires that He wants them to follow. Sometimes they aren't given that freedom because a parent thinks they know best and what the girl wants doesn't fit in with the parents' plans. So the parents (often unknowingly) put a guilt complex on girls saying they must do the parents wishes otherwise the girls are disobeying God.

Now I am NOT saying girls shouldn't take their father's advice and that sometimes if a girl's desires conflict with her father's she should do her own thing. God gave us parents for a reason. That being said our parents are not God and there may be times we need to disobey or part company with them and it won't be sin or from a rebellious heart.

Those are my thoughts. I am not sure if any of it made sense because I'm still thinking and studying this issue through. I guess you can take what's truth and spit out the rest.

So Much More Chapter Three

So I'm finally getting my life back together after Christmas Break.
:-P Below are my thoughts on Chapter 3 of So Much More. I must admit I'm a little intimidated doing this review. I really don't think I have the discernment to tackle this yet. So many of their ideas are true but not 100% or they are true but they have made them into a rule which God never commanded. It may be a good thing but doesn't mean its the only thing we could do or it is always the best choice. So if any of you have something to share please do!!!!

 

pg. 23 Because the Bible doesn't give a huge amount of instruction exclusively to fathers and daughters, most of what we have to work from are the passages setting the patterns for men and women in general.

That statement should have given me a red flag of caution when I first read this book. It's true. God doesn't give a lot of specific instructions therefore I should have been careful about creating a rule and living my life by a pattern that wasn't specifically commanded in Scripture.

 

I read a great article on this topic from Grace For My Heart. Part of it said: 

One of my general rules of interpretation is that God could be as specific as He wanted in His Word. There are very specific commands, detailed instructions on rituals and behavior, in the Old Testament. So, if He is not specific, I think He intends to give us some leeway. I know this is uncomfortable for the legalists, but the truth is that God could have given us intricate details for anything He wanted. He could have told us exactly how long a woman’s hair should be; exactly how much money New Testament believers should give to the church; exactly what the governing structure of a church should be; and exactly when and where and how we should worship. Since He didn’t give us these details, we must be free to seek His leading on a more personal level.

Wish I would have understood that much earlier in my Christian walk!!! It would have made such a difference!

The chapter goes on to talk about how fathers should be protecting their daughters. I do agree that a father should protect his daughter. Though what this looks like will probably be different in every home.

I guess that is all I have on Chapter 3. I don't think I'm quite back to normal after my holiday break. :-P
Hope you all had a Wonderful Christmas and that your New Year is going well!
~Grace

So Much More Chapter 2 Part 2

Page 18

"But man is incomplete without her. It is the two of them together that reflect the image and glory of God. It is only when woman is, in effect, restored to man's side, that the two are fully complete."

In Genesis it doesn't say that God made Eve because Adam was incomplete without her. Nor does it say that Adam didn't reflect God's glory without Eve. Eve was created to be a companion and to be a helper. (Gen 2:18)

Even though I am single, I still reflect the glory and image of God. I do this when I show to others mercy and comfort (2 Cor. 1:3) and am tender hearted and forgiving (Eph. 4:32) love them as Christ loved me (Jn 13:34) and when I serve others (Matt. 20:25-28) The list could go on and on!

I think this is an important point especially for those still single. I can reflect God's image to others now! I am not some half baked witness. True, I don't reflect the marriage picture of Christ and the church as married couples do. But even married couples do no represent Christ's image 100% because God is perfect and we are a far cry from that. (Not that I'm downplaying the beauty of marriage. I would love to someday be "one flesh" with my future husband whoever that is. Hopefully sooner rather than later. :-P )

Page 19

"Ms. Stinem's statement [A woman without a man is like a fish without a bicycle] was not only absurd; it was blasphemous. This is because the relationship between men and women parallels the relationship between Christ and the church. (Eph. 5:23)"

I disagree that "the relationship between men and women parallels the relationship between Christ and the Church" Ephesians does not state that. It says husband and wife. My relationship with my father can reflect my relationship with my heavenly Father but it doesn't reflect my relationship with Christ and His bride the Church. Therefore how I relate to men who are not my husbands will be different without being considered blasphemous.



Page 20

"God saw that it was not good for Adam to be alone and said, "I will make a helper suitable for him." Being companions and helpers is more than just a job God gave us. It's what we were actually created for. It's what we were designed and specially equipped to be. In fact, it's an intrinsic and inextricable part of our natures to be helpers to men. It's not something we can get away from, even by choice."

I find it really interesting that Eve was created to be a companion and typically women are very relational people. ;-)

I'm not making a blanket rule for everyone from this, but in my own life I find the above true. I am discovering that I would much rather help someone than be responsible for leading a bunch of people. (Or running my own business!)

So Much More Chapter One: Continued

Continuing with Chapter One


Page 6

This Book is about protection. We know a number of girls whose fathers are so passive they don't provide their daughters any kind of guidance, direction, discipline or correction. We know girls who like it this way. Said one of these girls, "I sure hope my dad never picks up any of these ideas about interfering with my life or what I want!"

That girl is afraid to lose a measure of childish independence. She is afraid of fatherly input and protection. If you don't want this from your father, then you don't have the heart for this book. If you are not willing to give your heart to your father, this book will put you at odds with the Scriptural mandate you will find here.

First of all, just because a father does not give as much guidance to their daughters as Mr. Botkin or Mr. Phillips does, it does not mean that their father is passive. Many men just lead differently then Mr. Botkin or Mr. Phillips. For many years after reading So Much More I would be frustrated that my father wasn't "leading" me. He wasn't telling me what he wanted me to do, how I was supposed to live my life after high school, and he wasn't sharing with me his vision and telling me I needed to follow it and make it my own.

Now don't get me wrong, my dad is a wonderful leader. I highly respect and value his opinions. He does care about giving me protection and guidance. But if there is one thing I know my dad doesn't want for me it is to be a "monkey on a motorcycle" ie. he wants me to think for myself and not just blindly follow someones commands without thinking. (I am not saying the Botkins or Phillips family is advocating that we be "monkeys on a motorcycle" but some of the ways they portray leadership and passivity I don't think are correct.) Therefore the way my dad leads me will be different from the way other fathers lead who have different "visions". 

My dad raised me to have a relationship with Christ and to be following Christ's will for myself not because someone else tells me this is Christ's will but because I knew it for myself. He basically raised me so that when I became an adult I was just that, an adult. He didn't need to be constantly giving me instructions about what I needed to be doing. He didn't have to check up on me. He knew he "trained me up in the way I should go and when I was older I wouldn't depart from it" 

My dad does lead and guide me. I always know I can get guidance from my dad. I go to him a lot. I know when I go to him for guidance it will be just that, guidance. He won't tell me what to do. He points me in the right direction but he rarely tells me exactly what to do. (I am not saying that there is never a time and place for a father to tell his daughter what he thinks she should do)

Once I got past trying to have my father fit into the Vision Forum and So Much More leadership mold I could actually start to see and appreciate the way my father leads, guides, and protects our family.

 A note about their opinions of girls who don't want their father's input. I'm not sure you can say they are "afraid of losing childish independence and afraid of fatherly input and protection". Some may be, granted, but other girls may just not see Scripture to be what they are claiming. Maybe it just means that they are like the Bereans and are searching the Scriptures to see if what they are claiming lines up. If God hasn't shown them that this is what Scripture is saying those girls should not follow what is being said in this book. Even if it means being labeled as "afraid of losing childish independence and afraid of fatherly  input and protection" and experiencing rejection from conservative Christians.

Remember the Pharisees studied the Scriptures and came to the wrong conclusions. Just because one can "find" it in Scripture or godly leaders say it is so does not mean someones conclusion is right!


I will finish Chapter 1 on Friday. Stay tuned!

So Much More Chapter One Page One

My Thoughts on Chapter One

Page 1

"The world is a mess, and it's our fault." This is one of the most important things our father has taught us over the years. It sounds hard, but sometimes we need to hear hard truths. God has given principles for all people to live by. Christians are supposed to know exactly what these principles are and live by them, setting the example and upholding the standard. Yet Christians can be some of the most careless and ungrateful and forgetful people. We Christians can be responsible for leading the culture either away from God's design or toward it.

As good as the above sounds it was thoughts like these that kept my relationship with Christ at a distance. It seems to me that the whole point of the above is to point people to standards. When was the Christian life about standards? Five or so years ago I truly believed it was. To be a good Christian you had to have different convictions than the world. They would see you lived differently, see your standards, wonder why, and presto! One had a great witnessing opportunity! All because we had standards and were different.

But its not about standards at all. Its about Christ. The world shouldn't know we are Christians by our standards, but by our love. (Jn 13:35)

In Colossians 2:16-23 is says:

So don't let anyone condemn you for what eat or drink, or for not celebrating certain holidays or new-moon ceremonies or Sabbaths. For these rules were only shadows of the real thing Christ himself. Don't let anyone condemn you by insisting on self-denial. And don't let anyone say you must worship angels, even though they say they have had visions about this. These people claim to be so humble, but their sinful minds have made them proud. But they are not connected to Christ, the head of the body. For we are joined together in his body by his strong sinews, and we grow only as we get our nourishment and strength from God. You have died with Christ, and he has set you free from the evil powers of this world. So why do yo keep on following rules of the world, such as, Don't handle, don't eat, don't touch." Such rules are mere human teaching about things that are gone as soon as we use them. These rules may seem wise because they require strong devotion, humility, and severe bodily discipline. But they have no effect when it comes to conquering a person's evil thoughts and desires.

Pointing people to the christian way of life as standards is like pointing people to the law and keeping them there. The christian life isn't about what standards we have after we are saved. The law was only a shadow of the real thing, Christ. If you really want to fulfill the law and live like Christ would want you to, LOVE. "Love does no wrong to anyone, so love satisfies all of God's requirements. (Rom 13:10) Love satisfies ALL of God's requirements. It's not love plus homeschool. Love plus daughters staying at home. Love plus whatever else you want to insert. It's just love.

How do we love? "We love each other as the result of his [God] loving us first" (1 Jn. 4:19) We fulfill the law by experiencing a relationship with Christ! We love because He first loved us. It's not about trying to be nice to people, going to church on Sunday, dressing a certain way. It's about knowing and experiencing Christ.

NOTHING happens unless we experience the love Christ has for us! This was such a revelation to me. I used to try so hard. I would try to spend enough time in God's Word. I would try to help my parents. I would try display love and joy. I would try to be nice to my siblings. Try, try, try. I would go to bed and know I did not measure up so I would try harder. But what I didn't know is that it's not about trying! We could never become perfect on our own! We could never measure up no matter how hard we tried! That's why Christ came in the first place. It wasn't only about delivering us from hell but also delivering us in the here and now of trying to measure up. Delivering us from always having to try harder. The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace....It's the Fruit of the Spirit not of me trying harder.

Stay tuned for more of my thoughts on Chapter One!

Giveaway

     I just started following Hillary McFarland of Quivering Daughters It's been very interesting and given me a lot of food for thought.
     I read the book So Much More about 7 years ago and followed the book quite literally. Only to have myself wondering later if I just placed myself under a bunch of rules that Christ never wanted me to follow. Yet I can't figure out how to "free" myself since now I only understand those Scripture the way So Much More taught me. How do I free myself of those preconceived notions? How do I read Scripture for what it is actually saying and not as something more than it was intended to be?
     That's why when Hillary mentioned that Soul Liberty Faith was hosting a giveaway of her book I was excited. I'm really not sure if I truly recognize what Spiritual Abuse is. I think this book will really help me understand both sides and get some of my questions answered. I can't tell you how many times I have entered a giveaway to win this book and haven't. :( But maybe this time around????
     I think Hillary is doing a wonderful job of dispelling the myth that honor equates obedience and dishonour equates disobedience. I have never gotten the sense that she disrespects her parents and is bitter against them. I know many people who come out of that legalistic lifestyle and are bitter at their authorities. But in some ways I feel sorry for those in authority. They are in a lot of bondage. They are trying to do what is right and do everything to please Christ because they fear judgement day and are afraid they won't hear "well done." They fear they don't measure up.
     I know. Almost every night I used to fear I hadn't measured up. That I hadn't been good enough. I remember hearing Christ say "My yoke is easy and my burden is light" and thinking, "No it isn't. It would be so much easier if I weren't a christian and I didn't have to try to please God. If God didn't exist"
    But praise the Lord! He sent me the teachings of Jason Henderson and The Right Foundation Series What an eye opener! I didn't have to try to live the "christian life" and measure up. It was Christ's work! He wanted to form me into His image. It wasn't my work!!!
     Ever since then Christ has been faithfully showing me Himself. It's been wonderful! I can finally say that His "yoke is easy and His burden is light"
     If any of you are struggling, I pray that you will continue to look to Christ. He is so faithful!!! He wants to help and guide you!!!! He will show you the way.
~Grace