So Much More Chapter 9: Career

Some of my thoughts:

Pages 105-107 talk about women being provided for. I think this is a good admonition. Often times women are left high and dry to support themselves and raise their children alone when husbands just walk away. This is not the way it should be. Women should not be abandoned.

Page 108 talks about women called to be keepers at home. They quote Titus 2:4-5. I have a problem with this. So often this passage is applied to unmarried women as their calling in life. I'm not sure that was what was meant. Notice the passage says these young women should love their husbands (doesn't sound like they are talking to single girls!), love their children (again married women, siblings are NOT to become sisters responsibility), subject to their husbands (again not talking to single girls) So often single girls put themselves under this passage as a rule to live by when it doesn't even seem to be talking to them!

Pg. 113 According to Scripture is chasing a career outside the home a sin? Because only God can dictate what sin is, and because sin is a very serious thing, we must be very cautious about what we label as sin. Careerism may not technically be a sin in theological terms, but doing one's best to get out from under God's order for families and society may be a sinful action done with sinful motives. It may not be "want of conformity to the law of God, but it does appear to be want of conformity to His design for civil society.

They may claim that they can't say that it is a sin but I know in those circles that girls who don't conform to these standards are not accepted, gossiped about, and looked down on for not being "enlightened" as to what God wants for every single girl. It seems a lot of girls who hold to these standards have an outward form of righteousness but ignore the matters of the heart (loving others, not gossiping, etc)

They then go on to talk about the Proverbs 31 women. My own personal note, I find Prov. 31:16 interesting. With her own earnings she buys a field. This women was earning money. She didn't go to her husband for everything she needed. So often people are trying to create rules to live by: A women shouldn't work outside the home. Why do we need to create rules if Scripture didn't? Maybe when God gives a women a love for her husband and children she will be able to see how to earn some money in a balanced way without harming her husband or children and without needing to be bound by rules that aren't even in Scripture anyway!

Pg. 115, 116 I appreciated the admonition here that women who are childless or whose children are grown and gone don't have to go to work but instead can be ministering to the body of believers. So often women are made to feel worthless or lazy if they don't go and get a job when their children are grown. Personally I think money isn't the most important thing. If women want to help other believers instead of getting a job I think they should be free to do so without being looked down upon.

So Much More Chapter 8

pg. 93 The word "femininity" is also fraught with derogatory misinterpretations. It is a common misconception that femininity is all about being fluffy, pink, prissy, flirtatious, bimbo-like or trivial. These are descriptions that the world brings to mind when the word "feminine" pops up, but nowhere in Scripture are such things mentioned as being signs of godly womanhood.

I appreciated the above statement because so often I was told that to truly embrace godly womanhood I had to basically look like I came from the Victorian era. Not everyone likes lace, ruffles, or the color pink. Just because one dresses with less frills doesn't mean they are trying to rebel against femininity. Maybe they are just being practical. Imagine having to wash yards and yards of material for just one dress! I think I'll pass....

So Much More Chapter 7

They had a quote from Peter Marshall and I really love this part:

The world has enough women who are popular. It needs more who are pure. We need women, and men too, who would rather be morally right than socially correct.

Reminds me to keep Christ first even though the world doesn't.


From page 74

By simply being your father's daughter you are entitled to his protection. To be worthy of this protection, you must appreciate the reasons God has provided it for you, and then gratefully receive it from your dad.

I guess I'm not clear what they are trying to say. I don't think a person's worth is based on works. We are all worthy of protection simply because we were made in the image of God and are His creation. Any Jew in the Holocaust was worthy of protection no matter how nasty they were as a person.

From page 75

By self-denial, we mean something deeper than the usual meaning, "denying yourself things you want." Rather, we mean, "denying that you have a 'self' " 1 Corinthians 6:19,20 tells us that we do not belong to ourselves, but have been bought with a price. Matt. 10:39 says, "He that findeth his life shall lose it; and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it." We often hear people talking about "being true to yourself," "finding yourself," saying things like "That's just not 'me' " " I need to follow my heart" or "I'm special because I'm me."

The natural "us" deserves to spend eternity in Hell. Being true to our natural selves and "following our hearts," which "are deceitful above all things and desperately wicked" (Jer. 17:9) condemns us to spiritual death. We have no "selves" that are worth being loyal to. Much of what makes up our natural personalities and the state of our hearts is dictated by our sin natures.

I'm not sure I agree with the above quote. In one sense the old self was crucified at the cross and we don't want to bring it back. I agree that it was nasty! But on the other hand to deny the part of us that was made after God's image and to say our hearts are deceitfully wicked  and we have no selves worth being loyal to wouldn't really be true. After all, we were made after the image of God.

I know Conservative Christians are constantly quoting Jer. 17:9 about the heart being desperately wicked but what about Jer. 24:7? "And I will give them an heart to know me, that I am the Lord: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God: for they shall return unto me with their whole heart"
Our hearts can turn to Christ. He can give us a new heart with new desires. It doesn't have to stay desperately wicked and something that has to be ignored. Christ must always come first before anything, but just because He does, doesn't mean we completely ignore our heart and desires.

We do have a part of our self that is rebellious against God. It was crucified at the cross. I certainly don't want bring it back again and follow it! But we also were made after the image of God. God gave us personalities and desires. I don't need to deny the part of me that is made after God's image. For so long I wasn't really who God had created me to be. I was always trying to measure up. Fit into a mold of what others thought a good godly girl should be. I lost myself. I lost who God created me to be.

Ps. 37:4 Take delight in the Lord, and He will give you your heart's desires.

Yes, I should be delighting in the Lord, but notice it doesn't say delighting in trying to follow standards or rules. It says delighting in the Lord. He is to be my delight.

Notice it also says God will give me the desires of my heart. If my heart was only desperately wicked why would God give me something evil? How can God give me the desires of my heart if I never allow my heart to have any?

I'll have more thoughts on Chapter Seven soon!

So Much More Chapter Six

Chapter Six discusses Karl Marx and Feminism. I haven't really studied the history of either of these but reading through the chapter reminded me how important it is to be grounded in Christ. It doesn't matter what the doctrine is (Marxism, feminism, legalism) it is easy to fall prey to them when one isn't grounded in Christ.

"A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump"

For me the leaven wasn't feminism but trying to live a life pleasing to Christ. Sounds good doesn't it? But the problem was it was MY effort. I was trying to find out what God wanted me to do. I was trying to measure up. The problem was I never could. That's not how I received Christ and that isn't how I continue to walk (be sanctified) in Him. (Col. 2:6) My life was all about earthly things (modest dress, holy living, godly music) but that isn't what the Christian life is all about. It's about Christ! (Col. 2:20-23)

I would almost think that any theology or idea does have some good in it or we wouldn't follow it. I'm realizing more and more how much truth can be in something with just a little falsehood added into it and yet still have extreme, life changing consequences.

Tragically I have seen this to be the case this week with a friend and it breaks my heart. It makes me want to go through all of my books and throw out any that do not preach Christ and instead are teaching man-made ideas that look good but really are nothing but filthy rags.

Truly, a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.

So Much More Chapter 4-Submission

Wow....Submission...this is a controversial subject. I'm going to try to tackle it anyway and believe me I do NOT have the answers. Basically I'm still seeking God's will on this topic and by no means have I figured it out yet. Below I will be referencing two articles that have an entirely different perspective on this subject than what I originally had. I really encourage you to read them since my thoughts really won't make much sense without them.

Chapter 4 of So Much More talks about Submission. To Quote:

According to the laws of the vows in Numbers 30, an unmarried girl is under the authority of her father, just as a wife is under the authority of her husband. In addition to being able, as we mentioned earlier, to annul his daughter's vow, a father has the authority to guide his daughter concerning marriage (1 Cor. 7:36-38) God has placed our fathers in a  position of authority over us, and to disobey them is to disobey God, unless the two come in direct conflict with one another.

Basically they are saying that single girls are under a father's authority (in the same way a wife is to her husband) until marriage and to disobey a father is to disobey God (unless the two come in direct conflict).

First of all, Numbers 30 does not say ALL unmarried girls can have their vows annulled. Every time in this passage it mentions an unmarried daughter living at home with her father it says the girl is in her youth. Is this significant? I'm not sure but it may very well be. Mike Pearl had an interesting article on unmarried kids and obedience. It can be found here (You will have to scroll past all of the letters to get to the article) It got me thinking, "Is an older single daughter still required to obey her father or is she only required to give him honor?" "Is she required to live at home in all of her single years?" The Bible doesn't have much to say about what single girls are supposed to be doing. Maybe because the norm was that most girls would get married while still in their youth (Pr. 5:18) which would then avoid the stage of parents and young adults relating when they are fully adults but haven't started their own household yet. Mike Pearl makes an interesting point in his article: obedience to parents is always in the context of children and not adults. Honor (not the same thing as obedience) is in the context of adults. Implying adults can disobey without necessarily dishonoring their parents.

Now you may say, but wait! What about all of the arranged marriages and examples in Scripture that seem to imply that a father is in authority over his single daughter and what she does with her life until she marries. Again I will reference a really good article since she said it so much better than I did. Please check out Three in one makes five Are all of those stories in the Bible on unmarried girls actual direct commands God is calling us to obey? For example, the story of Jephthah and his unmarried daughter. What should girls apply to their life? Should we conclude that a single girl should never be the first one out the door to meet her father when he has been away since consequences followed? (Judges11:34-39) I should think not!

If adult daughters are not required to obey parents but can disobey parents without always having it be dishonor and disobedience to God the ramifications could be huge for some girls! Maybe it would mean they would be able to leave an over-controlling parent without feeling like they are living in sin.

I love my father.  I do seek his advice. I do respect and honor him and will put his wishes before my own because I know he has wisdom in certain areas that I do not. But I won't let him be the controller of my life. (By the way, he is NOT controlling) Christ is the only one with the right to control my life.

God does give girls desires that He wants them to follow. Sometimes they aren't given that freedom because a parent thinks they know best and what the girl wants doesn't fit in with the parents' plans. So the parents (often unknowingly) put a guilt complex on girls saying they must do the parents wishes otherwise the girls are disobeying God.

Now I am NOT saying girls shouldn't take their father's advice and that sometimes if a girl's desires conflict with her father's she should do her own thing. God gave us parents for a reason. That being said our parents are not God and there may be times we need to disobey or part company with them and it won't be sin or from a rebellious heart.

Those are my thoughts. I am not sure if any of it made sense because I'm still thinking and studying this issue through. I guess you can take what's truth and spit out the rest.

So Much More: Finishing Chapter One

Last but not least....

Page 7



"We believe in a day of extreme apostasy and judgement, extreme measures are exactly what are called for, and that a drastic step in the opposite direction is exactly what we need to take."


I do not agree that a drastic step in the opposite direction is exactly what we need to take! This is so typical! Everybody keeps doing the pendulum swing. I don't care how wrong something is. Going in the opposite direction is not going to fix the problem!!! Most people go from lawlessness to legalism. Neither are right! Sure, legalism looks good but the religious leaders of Christ's day had that and Christ didn't have too many kind words for them. When we see that something is wrong we shouldn't swing in the opposite direction and expect it to fix the problem. Creating rules doesn't fix anything! It may look good for a while but it doesn't fix anything because it doesn't change the heart. Gossiping about those who have "gone astray" and looking down on others doesn't help anything but self-pride. Instead of trying to come up with solutions, rules, answers, and backing your "position" up with Scripture...Run to Christ!!! He is the Only One with answers because He is the Only answer! Even the Bible is not the answer. Jesus told the Pharisees "You search the Scriptures because you think they give you eternal life. But the Scriptures point to me!" (John 5:39) How often we do that as Christians. We think we can find all of the answers in the Scriptures yet our rules and convictions start replacing a relationship with Christ.

I found this interesting:

"They [stay-at-home daughters] must continually endure the disapproval of many people who call their zealous obedience to Scripture "legalism" (pg.8)"

They defined Legalism as:

"We define legalism as the fleshly pursuit of man's moralism in hope of earning salvation." (pg. 334 point 4)

I definitely do not define legalism as only relating to the hope of earning salvation. It encompasses more than that. I hadn't ever sat down and defined what I thought it is. I suppose right now I would have to say legalism is trying to earn God's favor (salvation or sanctification) through our own obedience. But we couldn't earn God's approval before we were saved so why do we think we can do it after we are saved? Or you could say legalism is trying to follow God's Word perfectly. We couldn't do it before we were saved so why would we think that we can attempt it now? The Christian life is only lived through Christ. Not a bunch of rules.

Let me ask you this one question: Did you receive the Holy Spirit by keeping the law? Of course not, for the Holy Spirit came upon you only after you believed the message you heard about Christ. Have you lost your senses? After starting your Christain lives in the Spirit, why are you now trying to become perfect by your own human effort? (Gal. 3:2,3)
     I'll be starting Chapter 2 next week. I will have positive things to say about this book. I know it doesn't sound like it now. :-P
     I did get some good things out of this book. It's just that I don't live my life anymore by trying to find out what God wants me to do and how He wants me to live my life. I live it now by seeing Christ and developing my relationship with HIM. God takes care of the rest. :-)
 
~Grace

So Much More Chapter One: Continued

Continuing with Chapter One


Page 6

This Book is about protection. We know a number of girls whose fathers are so passive they don't provide their daughters any kind of guidance, direction, discipline or correction. We know girls who like it this way. Said one of these girls, "I sure hope my dad never picks up any of these ideas about interfering with my life or what I want!"

That girl is afraid to lose a measure of childish independence. She is afraid of fatherly input and protection. If you don't want this from your father, then you don't have the heart for this book. If you are not willing to give your heart to your father, this book will put you at odds with the Scriptural mandate you will find here.

First of all, just because a father does not give as much guidance to their daughters as Mr. Botkin or Mr. Phillips does, it does not mean that their father is passive. Many men just lead differently then Mr. Botkin or Mr. Phillips. For many years after reading So Much More I would be frustrated that my father wasn't "leading" me. He wasn't telling me what he wanted me to do, how I was supposed to live my life after high school, and he wasn't sharing with me his vision and telling me I needed to follow it and make it my own.

Now don't get me wrong, my dad is a wonderful leader. I highly respect and value his opinions. He does care about giving me protection and guidance. But if there is one thing I know my dad doesn't want for me it is to be a "monkey on a motorcycle" ie. he wants me to think for myself and not just blindly follow someones commands without thinking. (I am not saying the Botkins or Phillips family is advocating that we be "monkeys on a motorcycle" but some of the ways they portray leadership and passivity I don't think are correct.) Therefore the way my dad leads me will be different from the way other fathers lead who have different "visions". 

My dad raised me to have a relationship with Christ and to be following Christ's will for myself not because someone else tells me this is Christ's will but because I knew it for myself. He basically raised me so that when I became an adult I was just that, an adult. He didn't need to be constantly giving me instructions about what I needed to be doing. He didn't have to check up on me. He knew he "trained me up in the way I should go and when I was older I wouldn't depart from it" 

My dad does lead and guide me. I always know I can get guidance from my dad. I go to him a lot. I know when I go to him for guidance it will be just that, guidance. He won't tell me what to do. He points me in the right direction but he rarely tells me exactly what to do. (I am not saying that there is never a time and place for a father to tell his daughter what he thinks she should do)

Once I got past trying to have my father fit into the Vision Forum and So Much More leadership mold I could actually start to see and appreciate the way my father leads, guides, and protects our family.

 A note about their opinions of girls who don't want their father's input. I'm not sure you can say they are "afraid of losing childish independence and afraid of fatherly input and protection". Some may be, granted, but other girls may just not see Scripture to be what they are claiming. Maybe it just means that they are like the Bereans and are searching the Scriptures to see if what they are claiming lines up. If God hasn't shown them that this is what Scripture is saying those girls should not follow what is being said in this book. Even if it means being labeled as "afraid of losing childish independence and afraid of fatherly  input and protection" and experiencing rejection from conservative Christians.

Remember the Pharisees studied the Scriptures and came to the wrong conclusions. Just because one can "find" it in Scripture or godly leaders say it is so does not mean someones conclusion is right!


I will finish Chapter 1 on Friday. Stay tuned!

Attempting to stay out of ditches

     Confused. I guess that's what you could call me. I'm starting to rethink everything I ever thought or believed. Well...maybe not everything, but enough to make my head spin!
     When I was young, I really didn't know how to discern the Truth. When people told me something, I feared rejection, so I conformed to what they said. Instead, I should have been firm in my relationship with Christ and went to Him to see if what people told me was correct. When people touted a doctrine and made those who disagree practically out to be heretics, I should have went to Christ. People are not my Bible! If I go to Christ for direction isn't He able to keep me from falling into false doctrine???
     It's not that I'm doubting Christ is real, completely abandoning the way I live, changing what I believe, or abandoning all my convictions, rather, I want my beliefs to be solely based on Christ alone and done because of love for Him and my neighbor, not because of fear of man.
     So many friends as they grew up went from one ditch to another. They were ultra conservative (probably due to all the gossip if you weren't). Then, as they got older, they realized what they thought was a must really wasn't. So they abandoned practically everything and went into another ditch, going into pitfalls their parents were trying to help them avoid. To a certain extent, I don't care if they don't live a certain way if its because they no longer have those convictions. But, to just completely abandon beliefs without finding out what God truly does want is a sure way to go from one ditch to another. It's something I want to avoid.               
     It's hard finding a balance. One I'm praying I will find. For now, I'm taking it slow, praying to Christ and crying out to Him to show me the way, and walking very, very slow. I want to stay on the straight and narrow path, not in the ditch on either side.

The Curse of the Standard Bearers Part 4, 5, 6, and 7

More great insights from the article by Norm Wakefield:

     (God's Guidance) will be through the inerrant Word of God, but He must also guide us in the interpretation and application of it. (How true! So often we think that when we search the Scriptures we can find the answers we need on the different issues. Little realizing that if God isn't the one guiding the interpretation and application we can really err. Think of the Scribes and Pharisees!)

     When the Apostle Paul wrote, "He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit (Titus 3:5) he was saying that God has taken not only our worst deeds, but also our best and most righteous deeds out of consideration. The new birth is 100% God's mercy!

     You belong to Jesus because God gave you to Him, not because of a decision you made or standards you keeps. (John 17:6) These gifts of forgiveness through His blood and righteousness through His perfect living are all that sets you apart from the most wicked sinner on the face of the planet and saves you from His wrath.

     Whenever the church worships anything other than the living Christ, it declines ~Pastor Robert Welch